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Vjetėr 21-12-04, 11:20   #1
Hitleri
 
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Gabim Aleksandri i Madh Shqiptar apo Grek

Kohet e fundit po perflitet shume per figuren e Aleksandrit te Madh te Maqedonise, sidomos per origjinen e tij. Shume historiane mendojne se ai nuk ishte grek siē pretendojne fqinj tane "helene". Para se Maqedonia te quhej keshtu, ajo ka qene quajtur Emathia, qe shpjegohet me shqipen Emathia-e madhja, per shkak te madhesise tokesore. Gjithashtu historianet e lashte grek thone se ai fliste me nje gjuhe ndryshe nga ajo e grekeve me ushtaret e tij. Mendohet qe Iliret dhe Maqedonasit flisnin te njejten gjuhe. Ne vegjeline e tij Aleksandri i Madh jetoi ne zonen e Matit (ne Shqiperine e sotme Veriore). kjo vertetohet lehte pasi aty ekziston miti i "Lekes se Madh". Njesia monetare e R. SH. quhet "lek", pra sipas ketij heroi. Nena e tij quhej Olimpi, dhe vinte nga fisi i Moloseve (sot rajon ne Ēameri). Greket, si shume here te tjera, e kane pervetesuar kete figure te ndritur te parardhesve tane.

JU ĒFARE MENDONI?


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Vjetėr 21-12-04, 22:00   #2
Auberoni
 
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Gabim

Ndoshta e ema i quhej Olimpi, por, i ati i quhej Filipos, emer Helen.
FIl-adhurues dhe Ipos-Kal, pra ai qe adhuron kuajt.

Hmm..eshte veshtire te percaktohet se cfare ka qene. Autoret Shqiptare pervec emes se tij, marrin parasysh edhe faktin se Aleksandri ka luftuar me te gjithe; pervec me Iliret.

Ema Shqiptare nuk e ben ate Shqiptar; aq sa e ben Slav Skenderbeun nena e tij Voisava. Poashtu, edhe Karagjorgji i Serbise e ka pasur te emen Shqiptare.

Nje qendron; Maqedonia e dikurshme ka qene shume e perzier, ka pasur Ilir, Trak, Helen e shume nomad tjere.
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Vjetėr 22-12-04, 11:53   #3
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Gabim

Ka shume shqiptare qe kane emra turq si Hasan, Bilal, Xhemal etj. por kjo nuk do te thote qe ata jane turq. Shume fakte mbeshtetesin se Aleksandri i madh i Maqedonise nuk ishte grek.

1) Historianet e lashte grek thone se gjuha e Maqedonasve eshte e
ndryshme nga ajo e grekeve. Pra, nuk ishin te njejta.

2)Nena e tij ishte ilire (molose) dhe besoj se e keni degjuar shprehjen " gjuhe amtare" "gjuhe e nenes". Pra, dihet qe nena eshte ajo qe ndikon me shume tek femija. Ajo e rrit, e edukon dhe natyrisht qe kishte per t'i folur ne gjuhen e vendit te saj, ilire. Olimpia nuk dinte maqedonisht pasi u martua me Filipin II per ēeshtje politike (krijim i aleancave)

3) Femijerine e tij e kaloi ne zonen malore te Ilirise (Mat). Pra, u mbrujt ne mjedis ilir, ne gjuhe ilire.

4) po te shikosh harten e pushtimeve te tij ne Ballkan, do te veresh qe trojet ilire nuk u pushtuan. Nuk mund te pushtonte gjakun e tij. Ah po, njehere beri lufte me mbretin ilir Klitin (Cletus greq.) Por duhet thene qe ky i fundit e sulmoi i pari. Aleksandri duhet te vetembrohej.

5)sipas shkrimeve historike greke te asaj periudhe thuhet qe ai kushtrimet (thirrjet) per lufte ua jepte fuftetareve te tij ne gjuhen e vet. Cila mund te ishte kjo gjuhe? -s'ka nevoje per pergjigje

6) Kryeqyteti i Maqedonise quhej Pela. Ne shqipen e sotme Pela eshte femra e kalit. Dihet qe Filipi II ishte i dhėnė pas kuajve, kjo gje ka nje fare lidhje.

Nje gje mund te them me siguri ai nuk ka qene grek.

Pres argumentet e tuaja.
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Vjetėr 22-12-04, 21:23   #4
Auberoni
 
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Gabim

Mire e the; shume fakte e mbeshtesin se nuk ishte Grek. Por, asnje fakt nuk e konfirmon.

Kjo eshte teme e gjere dhe qendron pertej mundesive te cdo njerit Historian qe te mohoj apo konfirmoj pohimin tend; kuptohet, perderisa nuk kemi dic kredibile te shkruar. Keto argumente tuaja jane shume domethenese dhe shprehese por nuk mjaftojne qe te shendrrohet ne nje dokrine te qendrueshme dhe te pranueshme nga tjeret.
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Vjetėr 23-12-04, 13:43   #5
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Gabim

Aleksandri i Madh gjer me sot eshte quajtur Grek. Historianet nuk jane ne gjendje te percaktojne se ai ishte Shqiptar por mund te vertetojne fare lehte se ai nuk ishte grek, por kjo gje nuk behen. Arsyet-s'di ē'te them.Ne edhe sot mesojme se ai ishte grek. Gabim teper i madhh.
Greket na e kane vjedhur shume nga historia jone kombetare.
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Vjetėr 24-12-04, 14:58   #6
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Gabim

Nje her ju pershendes per temen z.HITLER
Un per veti jam i mendimit qe LEKA esht shqiptar?!!!
Pse jam i kty mendimi po tash un kam nje nenpyetje?lidhur me temen:
-Qka mendoni ju motra e vllezer po moneta jon kombetare a esht e rastit qe emerohet LEK Kam besimin qe dot me kuptoni se nga rjedh orgjina LEK ,,,,tash per tash kaq se me hi spjegimit me besoni se duhet me shkruajt shum gjate ,,,va lej vet te vlersoni ket lidhshmeri evidente,,,,dhe shembulli i dyte esht a esht e rastit qe
NALT-MADHERIJA YN LEKA emerohet me emrin LEKA
Mbreti I Shqiptarve LEKA ZOGU keta jan shembuj po perqendroheni ju lutem vazhdimisht ne emrimin e tiullit-LEKA moneta LEK
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Vjetėr 24-12-04, 15:03   #7
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Gabim

[b]Nje her ju pershendes per temen z.HITLER
Un per veti jam i mendimit qe LEKA esht shqiptar?!!!
Pse jam i kty mendimi po tash un kam nje nenpyetje?lidhur me temen:
-Qka mendoni ju motra e vllezer po moneta jon kombetare a esht e rastit qe emerohet LEK Kam besimin qe dot me kuptoni se nga rjedh orgjina LEK ,,,,tash per tash kaq se me hi spjegimit me besoni se duhet me shkruajt shum gjate ,,,va lej vet te vlersoni ket lidhshmeri evidente,,,,dhe shembulli i dyte esht a esht e rastit qe
NALT-MADHERIJA YN LEKA emerohet me emrin LEKAMbreti I Shqiptarve[size=6] LEKA ZOGU keta jan shembuj po perqendroheni ju lutem vazhdimisht ne emrimin e tiullit-LEKA moneta LEK
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Vjetėr 25-12-04, 13:01   #8
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Gabim

Monedha e Shqiperise LEKU doli per here te pare ne vitin 1925. Studiuesit vune re se grate e Shqiperise se Veriut (Shkoder, Mat e Verilindje) me monedha te vjetra formonin varese, te cilat i vendosnin rretheperqark kokes, dhe quheshin si hajmali, pra fatsjellese. Me interesantja ishin se quheshin "monedhat e Lekes". Ne fakt, nje pjese shume e vogel ishin te periudhes se Aleksandrit te Madh, ndersa pjesa tjeter megjithese nuk kishte kurrfare lidhje me Aleksndrin emeroheshin ne kete menyre. Bankieret e pare shqiptare vendosen t'a emertonin keshtu monedhen kombetare, e para pasi emri i saj ishte i lashte dhe e dyta per te ruajtur mitin e Lekes se Madh.

Mbreti A. Zogu e emeroi keshtu djalin e tij Leka Zogun, per t'i ngjare sadopak atij (Lekes se Madh) e per me teper ishte nga krahina e Matit (ku ky emer ishte teper i perhapur ndėr shqiptare).
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Vjetėr 25-12-04, 20:33   #9
Auberoni
 
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Herodotus confirms that the Macedonians were people of Greek origin (Histories of Herodotus Book 5, paragraph 22.1)

"Now that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks, as they themselves say, I myself chance to know and will prove it in the later part of my history.That they are so has been already adjudged by those who manage the Pan-Hellenic contest at Olympia. "


Thoukididis also verifies that the Macedonian kings' origin was from the Greek town of Argos (Book 2, 99.3):

"The country on the sea coast, now called Macedonia, was first acquired by Alexander, the father of Perdiccas, and his ancestors, originally Temenids from Argos."
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Vjetėr 25-12-04, 21:21   #10
Auberoni
 
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Meine Fuhrer...

Ja si na njeh neve Shqiptarve bota e qytetruar. Ketu, me bold i ke informatat per Maqedonet.

Source: Based on information from R. Ernest Dupuy and Trevor N. Dupuy, The Encyclopedia of Military History, New York, 1970, 95; Herman Kinder and Werner Hilgemann, The Anchor Atlas of World History, 1, New York, 1974, 90, 94; and Encyclopaedia Britannica, 15, New York, 1975, 1092.

Mystery enshrouds the exact origins of today's Albanians. Most historians of the Balkans believe the Albanian people are in large part descendants of the ancient Illyrians, who, like other Balkan peoples, were subdivided into tribes and clans. The name Albania is derived from the name of an Illyrian tribe called the Arber, or Arbereshė, and later Albanoi, that lived near Durrės. The Illyrians were Indo-European tribesmen who appeared in the western part of the Balkan Peninsula about 1000 B.C., a period coinciding with the end of the Bronze Age and beginning of the Iron Age. They inhabited much of the area for at least the next millennium. Archaeologists associate the Illyrians with the Hallstatt culture, an Iron Age people noted for production of iron and bronze swords with winged-shaped handles and for domestication of horses. The Illyrians occupied lands extending from the Danube, Sava, and Morava rivers to the Adriatic Sea and the Sar Mountains. At various times, groups of Illyrians migrated over land and sea into Italy.
The Illyrians carried on commerce and warfare with their neighbors. The ancient Macedonians probably had some Illyrian roots, but their ruling class adopted Greek cultural characteristics. The Illyrians also mingled with the Thracians, another ancient people with adjoining lands on the east. In the south and along the Adriatic Sea coast, the Illyrians were heavily influenced by the Greeks, who founded trading colonies there. The present-day city of Durrės evolved from a Greek colony known as Epidamnos, which was founded at the end of the seventh century B.C. Another famous Greek colony, Apollonia, arose between Durrės and the port city of Vlorė.
The Illyrians produced and traded cattle, horses, agricultural goods, and wares fashioned from locally mined copper and iron. Feuds and warfare were constant facts of life for the Illyrian tribes, and Illyrian pirates plagued shipping on the Adriatic Sea. Councils of elders chose the chieftains who headed each of the numerous Illyrian tribes. From time to time, local chieftains extended their rule over other tribes and formed short-lived kingdoms. During the fifth century B.C., a well-developed Illyrian population center existed as far north as the upper Sava River valley in what is now Slovenia. Illyrian friezes discovered near the present-day Slovenian city of Ljubljana depict ritual sacrifices, feasts, battles, sporting events, and other activities.
The Illyrian kingdom of Bardhyllus became a formidable local power in the fourth century B.C. In 358 B.C., however, Macedonia's Philip II, father of Alexander the Great, defeated the Illyrians and assumed control of their territory as far as Lake Ohrid (see fig. 5). Alexander himself routed the forces of the Illyrian chieftain Clitus in 335 B.C., and Illyrian tribal leaders and soldiers accompanied Alexander on his conquest of Persia. After Alexander's death in 323 B.C., independent Illyrian kingdoms again arose. In 312 B.C., King Glaucius expelled the Greeks from Durrės. By the end of the third century, an Illyrian kingdom based near what is now the Albanian city of Shkodėr controlled parts of northern Albania, Montenegro, and Hercegovina. Under Queen Teuta, Illyrians attacked Roman merchant vessels plying the Adriatic Sea and gave Rome an excuse to invade the Balkans.
In the Illyrian Wars of 229 and 219 B.C., Rome overran the Illyrian settlements in the Neretva River valley. The Romans made new gains in 168 B.C., and Roman forces captured Illyria's King Gentius at Shkodėr, which they called Scodra, and brought him to Rome in 165 B.C. A century later, Julius Caesar and his rival Pompey fought their decisive battle near Durrės (Dyrrachium). Rome finally subjugated recalcitrant Illyrian tribes in the western Balkans dwing the region of Emperor Tiberius in A.D. 9. The Romans divided the lands that make up present-day Albania among the provinces of Macedonia, Dalmatia, and Epirus (see fig. 2).
For about four centuries, Roman rule brought the Illyrian-populated lands economic and cultural advancement and ended most of the enervating clashes among local tribes. The Illyrian mountain clansmen retained local authority but pledged allegiance to the emperor and acknowledged the authority of his envoys. During a yearly holiday honoring the Caesars, the Illyrian mountaineers swore loyalty to the emperor and reaffirmed their political rights. A form of this tradition, known as the kuvend, has survived to the present day in northern Albania.
The Romans established numerous military camps and colonies and completely latinized the coastal cities. They also oversaw the construction of aqueducts and roads, including the Via Egnatia, a famous military highway and trade route that led from Durrės through the Shkumbin River valley to Macedonia and Byzantium (later Constantinople --see Glossary). Copper, asphalt, and silver were extracted from the mountains. The main exports were wine, cheese, oil, and fish from Lake Scutari and Lake Ohrid. Imports included tools, metalware, luxury goods, and other manufactured articles. Apollonia became a cultural center, and Julius Caesar himself sent his nephew, later the Emperor Augustus, to study there.
Illyrians distinguished themselves as warriors in the Roman legions and made up a significant portion of the Praetorian Guard. Several of the Roman emperors were of Illyrian origin, including Diocletian (284-305), who saved the empire from disintegration by introducing institutional reforms, and Constantine the Great (324-37)--who accepted Christianity and transferred the empire's capital from Rome to Byzantium, which he called Constantinople. Emperor Justinian (527-65)--who codified Roman law, built the most famous Byzantine church, the Hagia Sofia, and reextended the empire's control over lost territories- -was probably also an Illyrian.
Christianity came to the Illyrian-populated lands in the first century A.D. Saint Paul wrote that he preached in the Roman province of Illyricum, and legend holds that he visited Durrės. When the Roman Empire was divided into eastern and western halves in A.D. 395, the lands that now make up Albania were administered by the Eastern Empire but were ecclesiastically dependent on Rome. In A.D. 732, however, a Byzantine emperor, Leo the Isaurian, subordinated the area to the patriarchate of Constantinople. For centuries thereafter, the Albanian lands became an arena for the ecclesiastical struggle between Rome and Constantinople. Most Albanians living in the mountainous north became Roman Catholic, while in the southern and central regions, the majority became Orthodox.
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Vjetėr 26-12-04, 11:46   #11
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---Sot nuk janė ruajtur shumė fjalė maqedonase*(shih njė shėnim nė fund) , njė pjėsė e paktė e tyre janė mbedhur nė fjalor nga Isihios (grek). Tė bie nė sy fjala “Vatara” qė pėrkon me fjalėn shqipe Vatėr-Votėr (njė lidhje tjetėr e ēuditshme kjo fjalė ka me fjalėn gjermane “VATER” (shqiptohet “fater”), qė nė gjerm. do tė thotė baba, at, dhe kjo pėr faktin se nė vendin ku zjarri mbahej ndezur vendosej hiri i paraardhėsve, pra i etėrve, i baballarve i cili padiskutim qė respektohej.)

Nga kjo kuptohet se nuk del asnjė pėrfundim, sepse nevojiten edhe fakte tė tjera qė tė forcohet bindja se maqedonasit ishin fis ilir (d.m.th. pellazg). Kryeqyteti i Filipit quhej Pela, qė ka kuptimin e pelės (femrės sė kaloit). Emrin e vertetė tė Filipit (nė maqedonisht nuk e dijmė). “Filip” eshte emėr grek dhe do tė thotė Fil-ipos= atij qė i pėlqejnė kuajt. Padyshim duhet tė eksistojė ndonjė lidhje midis Filipit dhe Pėlės. Nė Emathia (Maqedoni) ekzistonin qytetet e Pėlės, kryeqyteti i mėpasshėm i Filipit dhe Eje (Edesa e sotme nė Greqi). Eje do tė thotė vend me ujėra dhe vetė ky vend i jep tė drejtė emrit qė mban (pra, eshte vend i pasur me ujėra). Pėr Ejen kemi fjalėn shqipe Uji-Ujė.

* Maqedonia e lashtė nuk ka kurrfarė lidhje me Maqedoninė e sotme. Tė ashtėquajturit “maqedonas” tė sotėm flasin gjuhė sllave (qė s’ėshtė gjė tjetėr veēse njė dialekt i bullgarishtes e krejtėsisht i ndryshėm nga maqedonishtja e lashtė).


Kėrkimet e reja kanė zbuluar se rreth 6000 ushtarė ilirė pas vrasjes sė Klitit nga Aleksandrin i Madh e veēuan pozicionin e tyre dhe u endėn nėpėr Braktare (Persi) deri sa arritėn nė Kafiristanin e sotėm (midis Afganistanit dhe Pakistanit). Pėrpara pak vjetesh skenaristi James Hilton xhiroi njė dokumentar “Horizonte tė humbura” (Orizzonti Perduti). Banorėt e asaj zone janė tė gjatė, tė bardhė, me flikė gėshtenjė dhe jetojnė shumė vjet.

Ultėsira ku jetojnė quhet edhe nė ditėt e sotme Hunza (hundė e vogėl) dhe me tė vėrtetė kjo fushė mbyllet me njė hundėz midis dy maleve qė e rrethojnė. Njė tjetėr ngulim (vendosje) e tyre moēalore (kėnėtore) quhet Balta. Dialeketi i tyre quhet Burrusheski qė do tė thotė gjuhė e burrave. Reaguan ndaj imponimit tė fesė myslimane (sot janė tėrėsisht myslimanė). Megjithė kėtė ata edhe sot bėjnė dhe pijnė (nė kundėrshtim me fenė islame e me tė gjithė banorėt e atjeshėm) verė e madje tė pėrzier me ujė, siē bėnin tė lashtėt. Shumė zakone dhe tradita dėshmojnė pėr prejardhjen e tyre ilire.
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Vjetėr 26-12-04, 13:49   #12
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Vjetėr 26-12-04, 13:52   #13
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Vjetėr 21-04-05, 06:16   #14
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Gabim

HEIL HITLER!!!!!!!


Sa teme e qelluar por edhe e veshtire!
Duke pasur parasysh natyren lakmiqare Greke per te mvetesuar cdo gje me vlere ne Ballkan, e njekohesisht edhe faktin se burimet e shkruara te kohes se Aleksandrit te Madh, te gjitha vijne prej autoreve greke, kisha thene eshte veshtire te vijme ne nje konkludim real per kete ceshtje!
Me ka interesuar kjo Ceshtje edhe me pare, meqe jam pjeserisht nga Maqedonia jam vete, dhe gjithmone me ka penguar fakti se Sllavet qe jetojne ne territorin e Maqedonise kane zaptuar emrin e lashte te kesaj treve!
Ne interenet kam gjetur keto te dhena:
Citim:
Olympias (Greek: Ολυμπιάς) (c. 376 BC - 316 BC) was an Epirote princess, a wife of Macedonian king Philip II of Macedon and the mother of Alexander the Great.

Olympias was daughter of Neoptolemus, king of Epirus. Her father claimed descent from Pyrrhus, son of Achilles. It is said that Philip II fell in love with her in Samothrace, where they were both being initiated into the mysteries. The marriage took place in 359 BC, shortly after Philip's accession, and Alexander was born in 356 BC.
ne te njeten kohe qe thuhet se:

Citim:
According to several legends, Olympias was impregnated not by Philip, who was afraid of her and her affinity for sleeping in the company of snakes, but by Zeus. Alexander was himself aware of these legends, and would refer to Zeus as his father, rather than Philip.

By tradition Olympias was descended from another woman of the same name, daughter of Neoptolemus and Andromache and so grand-daughter of Achilles and Deidamea. This formed the basis of Alexander's claims to be a new Achilles.
sa i perket tezes patriarkale qe ka parashtruar Auberoni, fakti se Nena e Aleksandrit, Olympia, Molose e Epirit (Ilire) nuk e ben Aleksandrin Ilir, me duhet te them, se para kristianizmit, ne mungese te dogmave religjioze mbi "pastertine morale", posaqerisht ne nje periudhe te lirise seksuale si kjo e periudhes se Aleksandrit te Madh, (dhe natyrisht ne mungese te testit te ADNs ) eshte me veshtire te vertetohet atesia !!!! E VETMJA gje qe dihet sigurte ne kete periudhe, eshte ne te vertete linja e gjakut te memes-pra kush e lindi femiun!!!!!!! Keshtuqe te krahasohet mesjeta me shk IV para Epokes se re, vertete nuk ia vlen meqe shoqerite mesjetare kishin tjera norma shoqerore!!!!

me tutje sipas autoreve Greke te asaj kohe:

Citim:
Macedon was located to the north of classical Greece. In an effort to unite the rest of the Greek world against the ascendant power of Philip II of Macedon, Demosthenes denouced Philip as "no Greek, no way allied to Greece," [1] (http://www.4literature.net/Demosthen...ilippic/3.html) and as a threat to the freedom of the Greek city states. Olympias herself was from Epirus, another Greek state ( Epirus :arrow: Greek State :shock: ) on the edge of classical Greek civilization, on the northwest of the Greek peninsula. Macedonians were keen to adopt the achievements of the Greeks, and Philip selected the noted Athenian philosopher Aristotle, who was born in the Greek city of Stagira on the Chalcidice peninsula, to tutor young Alexander.

Classical authors (Arrian, Curtius, Diodorus, Justin, and Plutarch),differed in their descriptions of the Macedonians, with some considering them to be Hellenic (related to the other Greek peoples) and others regarding them as northern 'barbarians' (that is, foreigners unrelated to the Greeks). Thus, some Greeks would have considered the Macedonian ascendance to be a shift in power from one Greek state to another; others would have seen it as a takeover by barbarians.
(quotat marre nga wikipedia.com dhe branica.com)
Reana Nuk ėshtė nė linjė   Pėrgjigju Me Kuotė
Vjetėr 21-04-05, 09:07   #15
King_Gentius
 
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Gabim

Shumica e njohin Aleksandrin si grek, dhe se fiset e epirit(moloset, kaonet dhe thesprotet) nuk ishin ilire. Ne shqiptaret jemi pak vone te reklamojme versionin tone te historise. Megjithate, po shtoj dhe une dicka mbi kete teme:

Professor Tarn of Trinity college:




Libri i Tarnit eshte ribotuar:

http://www.pickabook.co.uk/cgi-bin/b...sbn=0521531373

Pershkrimi:
Tarn's Alexander the Great has become a classic and its importance for subsequent Alexander studies can hardly be exaggerated.

http://www.cambridge.org/catalogue/c...sbn=0521531373

Tarn’s Alexander the Great, first published in 1948, has become a classic and its importance for subsequent Alexander studies can hardly be exaggerated. Based on a lifetime’s work and elegantly and persuasively written, both volumes evoked immediate admiration - and very soon sharp reaction. Little has in fact appeared on Alexander over the last thirty years that has not been directly related to Tarn’s book. Especially Volume II, with its detailed analysis of the sources and discussion of the main historical cruces - such as Cleitarchus’ date, the status of the Greek cities, Alexander’s deification, his supposed plans for a world-kingdom and the famous thesis that he sought to realise the ‘brotherhood of mankind’ - has itself inspired scores of books and articles. For the scholar both volumes are indispensable and their re-appearance is to be warmly welcomed.

Ky liber perdoret dhe ne klasa mesimi:

http://www.usi.edu/libarts/history/M...der%20Syll.htm
http://www.csun.edu/~hcfll004/alexbibl.html
http://www.skidmore.edu/academics/cl...61f/texts.html


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